Saturday, June 10, 2006
My first project on arrival in Guatemala in March was to return to Quetzeltanango (Xela) for two more weeks of intensive Spanish. At the end of this period, I met Tony Robins, another guy who is retiring and intends to spend his future south of the border and isn't sure where that will be. We didn't spend much time together in Xela, but our email conversation since then has provided a tour of possibilities for creating new lives in Central America.
For more about Tony, his life, and why he is thinking about moving south, see his blog at tonyrobins.googlepages.com/home
TONY's COMMENTS ABOUT GUATEMALA
Quetzeltanango is a large and heavily overbuilt city, old, dirty smelly with no meaningful infrastructure. I have not seen a garbage truck since arrival but I have seen plenty of garbage. The water is not safe to drink. Perhaps there is a fire department or ambulance. service but I have seen none. There is a smog haze that obscures the local mountains and sometimes causes me breathing issues. The concept of clean air is a long way from their minds.
Everyone has 2 jobs or sells stuff on the street. A little street that goes nowhere might have 2 or 3 street vendors selling dubious food or pirate cds or the same newspaper as 5 other vendors in the square sell. The prices of food and papers is fairly well known and not negotiable but goods are never price marked and they just make it up.
The buses have this extra staff person who hangs out the door shouting the destination and honking the horn or flashing the lights. Overloading is expected and nothing works except perhaps the door and the engine. The chairs are broken as are all the instruments for the driver and the air conditioning and the windows. The extra staff also collects the fares in cash, no tickets of course. However, you can travel 2 hours for 50 cents.
So I’m in thos restaurant with not many customers and all the staff are chit chatting at the cash desk while these 2 customers in the distance are clearly getting agitated. I go up to pay my bill and say in spanglish “who is serving that table” nobody wants to understand me so I bekon to one of the waitstaff. She walks over and I point to the cusdtomers and say “Hablo”. My good deed for the day.
LEE TO TONY
MAY 21
Hi Tony, I really wish we had spent much more time together at Casa Xelajú. I’m not really sure what you are up to in your exploration of Central America, but it has enough overlap with my own interests that we should have much to share. Now that you have returned to Austin (today, I think, from reading your blog), I would really like to hear your summary of your travels and what conclusions you drew from it for yourself and for your future plans.
As for me, I have found it much harder to get my feet on the ground than I had anticipated, here in Guatemala. I had visions of living a moderate life here at much less cost than in the US, and using my African Peace Corps credentials to join an NGO working for community and economic development or human rights and democracy, one way or another.
Reality has been a rude awakening. Your observations about the personal dangers of living in Guatemala are correct.
I almost landed a great position to teach chemistry at a prestigeous private school here but, as they say, “almost” is reserved for horseshoes. Other teaching opportunities have not opened up. Most NGOs seem oriented to children or medical needs. At present I am searching for ways to break out of this box I have fallen into. Rattle enough cages, talk to enough people, and something should open up.
TONY TO LEE
May 21
Lee,
You seem to be having a very interesting time in Guatemala. Go knock 'em dead, as they say.
While in Nicaragua I came across the insight that just about any solution I came up with would have to be mine and that my days of working for someone else were numbered. Was I an idiot all those years working for someone else? Yes. It was a short term fix to get money in the door but longer term it limited what I could do and put me at the whim and mercy of someone else. Guess it took an 8 week vacation / retirement / education to ram thatidea into my skull. I am not even looking for a job in central america, I will create a niche for myself just as the shoeshine guy and the market vendors do.
Well, seeing the people in Guatemala, their conditions and lifestyles sure stopped me from feeling sorry for myself. Dang that's a hardlife, I am not even close. I have a new interest in life. Glad to say that I feel great and, as I said, this is my second life. Wow!
I plan to migrate to central america with my wife in November this year. She will do level 1 spanish school and I will do level 2 for a month in Leon Nicaragua. Leon is hot and my wife doesnt like heat but if you have read The Prince you will know what I am up to. During that month, we will visit places in the mountains at the weekends. Not as high as Xela but nicely fresh. It is so rediculously cheap to rent that we could do it indefinitely without the problems that permanence brings. Renting also brings with it the freedom for Karen to return to the US when she need to.
Every local I have talked to has expressed a desire to learn or improve their English. I want to teach to the TOEFL at a price the locals can
afford. Probably $1 per hour for conversational level and $2 an hour for the more serious person. If that doesn't work, I will be an lectricial or
plumber or tourist guide or driver or just plain retire and watch the grass
grow. I just don't worry and over analyze like I used to. Something will
work.
LEE TO TONY
MAY 24
OK Tony, it looks like we have our work cut out for ourselves. Onward and upward!
In a sense, part of why I feel so unsettled here in Guatemala is because I keep looking at – and discarding – various types of opportunities after just a preliminary exploration. But on the other hand I think that this is simply what happens when rattling the cage to find what will work.
Tony, I would like to know how you found the security situation in the other CenAm countries. Friends have told me that it is even more dangerous in Honduras and El Salvador than it is in Guatemala, although that is hard to believe. I really don’t like feeling that buses are too dangerous to use and that almost all strangers are potential threats, and being surrounded by all these guns.
My other question for you is why you are looking at Central America and not Mexico. True, many desirable locations in Mexico are Gringoland, which I don’t think appeals to either of us. But it is more accessible to family and friends in the US, and a location that is removed but still within striking distance of some US cultural accouterments could be pretty nice, I think.
Overall, my search will be a little different from yours, based in part on my experience in Africa. I found it very helpful and comforting to have an assigned position with organizational support in the initial stages while everything – environment, language, customs, resources, friends, roles – is new and unfamiliar.
So my current thought is to make an on-site survey of the NGOs working on community and economic development in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and maybe Nicaragua to find the organization I find most exciting, and then work with them for a time. For a subsistence stipend if possible. As a volunteer if necessary and the cost of living is as low as you seem to have found. (That certainly is not the case here in Cuidad Guatemala.) Then, if the NGO and I have a fantastic relationship, and Myrna has created a role for herself too, great. If not, by then Myrna and I will know the territory a bit and can move on to other things.
Or – maybe go look at Mexico.
TONY TO LEE
MAY 24
Mexico? Interesting. Never considered it much - too close to home. What
have you heard?
My final report on Central America : I visited Guatemala, Costa Rica and Nicaragua.
Guatemala: Xela, I felt perfectly safe and walked many streets at night
alone without fear or incident. I spent 2 days and nights in Guatemala city
and did not feel safe at all. Place had bad vibes and the press is always
about dead people and attacks. So, its NO to Xela because its too cold and
NO to the big city because I don't feel comfortable taking Karen there.
There are probably hundreds of towns where it would have worked but the
sordid conditions I saw outside the two cities were unatractive.
Costa Rica, San Jose is the big city and I spent several days there over the
last 3 years. The rich areas are good and the others are not good at all.
I was misdirected and overcharged on several occasions and had to step over
sleeping people on the sidewalks. Good areas of the city can quite easily
reach Californian prices. Superb coffee and espresso machines almost
everywhere. You could survive here forever without a word of Spanish with
minimal inconvenience. Tourist buses were a little more expensive than
chicken buses but sheer luxury compared to anything I saw anywhere else in
CenAm. San Jose was a NO on security, prices, traffic and gringos but a YES
on climate and ease of living.
Costa Rica Dominical. This is a small place on the pacific coast and will,
one day, be the Cancun of CR. This is where I finally learned that I really
dont want to be a beach bum all my life. I have had my last conversation
with a mystic 23 year old drop out surfista who has seen it all, knows all
the answers but still has nothing to say. Dominical was a NO on mosquitoes,
gringos, heat, unpaved roads but a YES on bars, opportunity, investment.
Costa Rica San Ramon. Small town outside San Jose, a little cooler, less
busy, very safe, almost zero gringos, exclusively Spanish. Good vibes all
over it. Prices of property tremendously variable but its possible to
locate good offers with a little local knowledge. A strong MAYBE with Karen
and me.
Nicaragua Managua - simply NO NO NO. Read the tourist books and magazines
to see why. I was there and it's too big, too clumsy and just doesn't work
as a city. Granada is, so I have it on good authority, an excellent place
to do business, be with a few gringos and practice right wing politics. (I
am not making this up). Modern office buildings, thriving business
environment. I did not go there for almost exactly those reasons.
Nicaragua Leon. University city, hotbed of left wing politics, not one
single building over 2 stories high, much antiquity without being pushy or
pretentious about it. Without Spanish skills you are in for a rough and
very limited experience. Tourists exist but by avoiding 2 streets I almost
never ran into them. Mostly German backpackers and a sprinkling of gringo
students more on the serious side rather than the party animal side. If you
like to eat at a different restaurant every day, you will leave after 5
days. There are 2 espresso machines in the city. I was offered instant
coffee preloaded with sugar many times. It is hot and almost nobody has air
conditioning. People sit outside their homes on the sidewalk on rocking
chairs and horse carts are occasionaly on the streets. I have never felt so
safe and secure in my life as walking the street of Leon after dark. Leon
is a strong MAYBE with the only problem being the heat and Karen. I was OK
with it but I think Karen will decline it. LOTS of business opportunity,
real life and vibrancy everywhere. These people like life. For me, on my
own, this is it.
Nicaragua Jinotega (Esteli and Matagalpa). In the hills, quiet, rural,
safe, Spanish only, cheap, cool but not like Xela, bus service. If you want
anything in the slightest bit unusual, you will need to go to Leon or
Managua. Jinotega will be massive in tourism if you have ideas and
patience. Esteli and Matagalpa were a little larger and a little warmer -
depends how rural you want to be. For me, with Karen, Jinotega is it.
I didn't like what I read of Honduras and San Salvidor and didn't have the
time funds or interest in investigating them.
Reasons for visiting each country:
Costa Rica: familiarity, home base, researching San Ramon
Guatemala: Really cheap language school and Xela looked interesting
Nicaragua: Political history and very positive responses to emails.
One thing is for sure, enthusiasm, energy and hard work go a very long way
in CenAm. Planning, forthought and original ideas seem much less important
there than I am used to. I am very tempted indeed to just close up shop here and just move there and
wing it.
Let me know your thoughts on Mexico.
Tony
LEE TO TONY
MAY 26
Tony, I am slowly coming to believe that this exploration of CenAm is an exercise in self-flagellation. Trying to find the best of sad options. Yesterday I had a long talk with one of the staff at Peace Corps Guate. with lots of experience in the region. He is extremely happy here in the Cuidad, but then the PC gives him an expensive home in Vista Hermosa and sends his kids to Colegio Maya, so he doesn´t have to deal with the grime and poverty at all. Anyway, his take on CenAm:
Panama – just like the USA along the canal, but with complete jungle 1 hr north or south. He sees that as an advantage, but I don´t.
Costa Rica – as you know
Guatemala – sad because 50% of the population is boxed out of the economy and there is no chance that this will change, along with its other problems.
Tegucigalpa – an absolute NO, with the rest of Honduras close behind
Nicaragua – as you know
El Salvador – Actually, he likes ES – says the society is integrated, on the whole, and ES has a reputation as the hardest working people in CenAm. Very entrepreneurial.
So I am thinking more and more about Mexico. The web is full of flacks for Mexican real estate and investment opportunities. But by Ken Luboff, Avalon Travel Books, seems to have a more realistic take on things. Take a look at it at a Borders or Barnes and Noble.
Lots of retirees and gringos flock to the costal resort areas. Forget those – Miami Beach South.
San Miguel Allende is in the highlands, about 3-5 hours north of Mexico DF. SMA itself sounds like a transplant from La Jolla California, but there are communities around it that may offer the best of both worlds. The book says that Guanajuato – a major city, unfortunately - has an active life with culture, and “very few foreigners living here, you will rarely hear English.” So it might be possible to find an interesting opportunity between these two locations. The other problem is that “highlands” means weather like Xela.
Coming down from the highlands a bit, Chalapa seems to offer a lot – but again, it will be necessary to look around to avoid the gringo centers.
At any rate, there are lots of Spanish schools, and lots of English schools too, because English so essential for any profession in Mexico. Some 50% of the education is taught in English. So it sounds to me like there should be lots of teaching opportunities in both English and Chemistry, and finding a place that also feels comfortable should be a matter of time and looking.
Meanwhile, I am looking at teaching English at a little school near our house here for the rest of the academic year that ends in September. It should force me to use-improve my Spanish, put some routine back into my life, and give me a taste of teaching English, even if it is for little kids. This school is small – no class larger than 10 students.
FINALLY: I needed to gtake a trip outside of Guatemala to renew my tourist visa, and that took me to El Salvador. My take on our visit was posted earlier (see previous post).
Stay tuned for more occasional reports on the trials and tribulations of life in Central America, more or less as they occur!
For more about Tony, his life, and why he is thinking about moving south, see his blog at tonyrobins.googlepages.com/home
TONY's COMMENTS ABOUT GUATEMALA
Quetzeltanango is a large and heavily overbuilt city, old, dirty smelly with no meaningful infrastructure. I have not seen a garbage truck since arrival but I have seen plenty of garbage. The water is not safe to drink. Perhaps there is a fire department or ambulance. service but I have seen none. There is a smog haze that obscures the local mountains and sometimes causes me breathing issues. The concept of clean air is a long way from their minds.
Everyone has 2 jobs or sells stuff on the street. A little street that goes nowhere might have 2 or 3 street vendors selling dubious food or pirate cds or the same newspaper as 5 other vendors in the square sell. The prices of food and papers is fairly well known and not negotiable but goods are never price marked and they just make it up.
The buses have this extra staff person who hangs out the door shouting the destination and honking the horn or flashing the lights. Overloading is expected and nothing works except perhaps the door and the engine. The chairs are broken as are all the instruments for the driver and the air conditioning and the windows. The extra staff also collects the fares in cash, no tickets of course. However, you can travel 2 hours for 50 cents.
So I’m in thos restaurant with not many customers and all the staff are chit chatting at the cash desk while these 2 customers in the distance are clearly getting agitated. I go up to pay my bill and say in spanglish “who is serving that table” nobody wants to understand me so I bekon to one of the waitstaff. She walks over and I point to the cusdtomers and say “Hablo”. My good deed for the day.
LEE TO TONY
MAY 21
Hi Tony, I really wish we had spent much more time together at Casa Xelajú. I’m not really sure what you are up to in your exploration of Central America, but it has enough overlap with my own interests that we should have much to share. Now that you have returned to Austin (today, I think, from reading your blog), I would really like to hear your summary of your travels and what conclusions you drew from it for yourself and for your future plans.
As for me, I have found it much harder to get my feet on the ground than I had anticipated, here in Guatemala. I had visions of living a moderate life here at much less cost than in the US, and using my African Peace Corps credentials to join an NGO working for community and economic development or human rights and democracy, one way or another.
Reality has been a rude awakening. Your observations about the personal dangers of living in Guatemala are correct.
I almost landed a great position to teach chemistry at a prestigeous private school here but, as they say, “almost” is reserved for horseshoes. Other teaching opportunities have not opened up. Most NGOs seem oriented to children or medical needs. At present I am searching for ways to break out of this box I have fallen into. Rattle enough cages, talk to enough people, and something should open up.
TONY TO LEE
May 21
Lee,
You seem to be having a very interesting time in Guatemala. Go knock 'em dead, as they say.
While in Nicaragua I came across the insight that just about any solution I came up with would have to be mine and that my days of working for someone else were numbered. Was I an idiot all those years working for someone else? Yes. It was a short term fix to get money in the door but longer term it limited what I could do and put me at the whim and mercy of someone else. Guess it took an 8 week vacation / retirement / education to ram thatidea into my skull. I am not even looking for a job in central america, I will create a niche for myself just as the shoeshine guy and the market vendors do.
Well, seeing the people in Guatemala, their conditions and lifestyles sure stopped me from feeling sorry for myself. Dang that's a hardlife, I am not even close. I have a new interest in life. Glad to say that I feel great and, as I said, this is my second life. Wow!
I plan to migrate to central america with my wife in November this year. She will do level 1 spanish school and I will do level 2 for a month in Leon Nicaragua. Leon is hot and my wife doesnt like heat but if you have read The Prince you will know what I am up to. During that month, we will visit places in the mountains at the weekends. Not as high as Xela but nicely fresh. It is so rediculously cheap to rent that we could do it indefinitely without the problems that permanence brings. Renting also brings with it the freedom for Karen to return to the US when she need to.
Every local I have talked to has expressed a desire to learn or improve their English. I want to teach to the TOEFL at a price the locals can
afford. Probably $1 per hour for conversational level and $2 an hour for the more serious person. If that doesn't work, I will be an lectricial or
plumber or tourist guide or driver or just plain retire and watch the grass
grow. I just don't worry and over analyze like I used to. Something will
work.
LEE TO TONY
MAY 24
OK Tony, it looks like we have our work cut out for ourselves. Onward and upward!
In a sense, part of why I feel so unsettled here in Guatemala is because I keep looking at – and discarding – various types of opportunities after just a preliminary exploration. But on the other hand I think that this is simply what happens when rattling the cage to find what will work.
Tony, I would like to know how you found the security situation in the other CenAm countries. Friends have told me that it is even more dangerous in Honduras and El Salvador than it is in Guatemala, although that is hard to believe. I really don’t like feeling that buses are too dangerous to use and that almost all strangers are potential threats, and being surrounded by all these guns.
My other question for you is why you are looking at Central America and not Mexico. True, many desirable locations in Mexico are Gringoland, which I don’t think appeals to either of us. But it is more accessible to family and friends in the US, and a location that is removed but still within striking distance of some US cultural accouterments could be pretty nice, I think.
Overall, my search will be a little different from yours, based in part on my experience in Africa. I found it very helpful and comforting to have an assigned position with organizational support in the initial stages while everything – environment, language, customs, resources, friends, roles – is new and unfamiliar.
So my current thought is to make an on-site survey of the NGOs working on community and economic development in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and maybe Nicaragua to find the organization I find most exciting, and then work with them for a time. For a subsistence stipend if possible. As a volunteer if necessary and the cost of living is as low as you seem to have found. (That certainly is not the case here in Cuidad Guatemala.) Then, if the NGO and I have a fantastic relationship, and Myrna has created a role for herself too, great. If not, by then Myrna and I will know the territory a bit and can move on to other things.
Or – maybe go look at Mexico.
TONY TO LEE
MAY 24
Mexico? Interesting. Never considered it much - too close to home. What
have you heard?
My final report on Central America : I visited Guatemala, Costa Rica and Nicaragua.
Guatemala: Xela, I felt perfectly safe and walked many streets at night
alone without fear or incident. I spent 2 days and nights in Guatemala city
and did not feel safe at all. Place had bad vibes and the press is always
about dead people and attacks. So, its NO to Xela because its too cold and
NO to the big city because I don't feel comfortable taking Karen there.
There are probably hundreds of towns where it would have worked but the
sordid conditions I saw outside the two cities were unatractive.
Costa Rica, San Jose is the big city and I spent several days there over the
last 3 years. The rich areas are good and the others are not good at all.
I was misdirected and overcharged on several occasions and had to step over
sleeping people on the sidewalks. Good areas of the city can quite easily
reach Californian prices. Superb coffee and espresso machines almost
everywhere. You could survive here forever without a word of Spanish with
minimal inconvenience. Tourist buses were a little more expensive than
chicken buses but sheer luxury compared to anything I saw anywhere else in
CenAm. San Jose was a NO on security, prices, traffic and gringos but a YES
on climate and ease of living.
Costa Rica Dominical. This is a small place on the pacific coast and will,
one day, be the Cancun of CR. This is where I finally learned that I really
dont want to be a beach bum all my life. I have had my last conversation
with a mystic 23 year old drop out surfista who has seen it all, knows all
the answers but still has nothing to say. Dominical was a NO on mosquitoes,
gringos, heat, unpaved roads but a YES on bars, opportunity, investment.
Costa Rica San Ramon. Small town outside San Jose, a little cooler, less
busy, very safe, almost zero gringos, exclusively Spanish. Good vibes all
over it. Prices of property tremendously variable but its possible to
locate good offers with a little local knowledge. A strong MAYBE with Karen
and me.
Nicaragua Managua - simply NO NO NO. Read the tourist books and magazines
to see why. I was there and it's too big, too clumsy and just doesn't work
as a city. Granada is, so I have it on good authority, an excellent place
to do business, be with a few gringos and practice right wing politics. (I
am not making this up). Modern office buildings, thriving business
environment. I did not go there for almost exactly those reasons.
Nicaragua Leon. University city, hotbed of left wing politics, not one
single building over 2 stories high, much antiquity without being pushy or
pretentious about it. Without Spanish skills you are in for a rough and
very limited experience. Tourists exist but by avoiding 2 streets I almost
never ran into them. Mostly German backpackers and a sprinkling of gringo
students more on the serious side rather than the party animal side. If you
like to eat at a different restaurant every day, you will leave after 5
days. There are 2 espresso machines in the city. I was offered instant
coffee preloaded with sugar many times. It is hot and almost nobody has air
conditioning. People sit outside their homes on the sidewalk on rocking
chairs and horse carts are occasionaly on the streets. I have never felt so
safe and secure in my life as walking the street of Leon after dark. Leon
is a strong MAYBE with the only problem being the heat and Karen. I was OK
with it but I think Karen will decline it. LOTS of business opportunity,
real life and vibrancy everywhere. These people like life. For me, on my
own, this is it.
Nicaragua Jinotega (Esteli and Matagalpa). In the hills, quiet, rural,
safe, Spanish only, cheap, cool but not like Xela, bus service. If you want
anything in the slightest bit unusual, you will need to go to Leon or
Managua. Jinotega will be massive in tourism if you have ideas and
patience. Esteli and Matagalpa were a little larger and a little warmer -
depends how rural you want to be. For me, with Karen, Jinotega is it.
I didn't like what I read of Honduras and San Salvidor and didn't have the
time funds or interest in investigating them.
Reasons for visiting each country:
Costa Rica: familiarity, home base, researching San Ramon
Guatemala: Really cheap language school and Xela looked interesting
Nicaragua: Political history and very positive responses to emails.
One thing is for sure, enthusiasm, energy and hard work go a very long way
in CenAm. Planning, forthought and original ideas seem much less important
there than I am used to. I am very tempted indeed to just close up shop here and just move there and
wing it.
Let me know your thoughts on Mexico.
Tony
LEE TO TONY
MAY 26
Tony, I am slowly coming to believe that this exploration of CenAm is an exercise in self-flagellation. Trying to find the best of sad options. Yesterday I had a long talk with one of the staff at Peace Corps Guate. with lots of experience in the region. He is extremely happy here in the Cuidad, but then the PC gives him an expensive home in Vista Hermosa and sends his kids to Colegio Maya, so he doesn´t have to deal with the grime and poverty at all. Anyway, his take on CenAm:
Panama – just like the USA along the canal, but with complete jungle 1 hr north or south. He sees that as an advantage, but I don´t.
Costa Rica – as you know
Guatemala – sad because 50% of the population is boxed out of the economy and there is no chance that this will change, along with its other problems.
Tegucigalpa – an absolute NO, with the rest of Honduras close behind
Nicaragua – as you know
El Salvador – Actually, he likes ES – says the society is integrated, on the whole, and ES has a reputation as the hardest working people in CenAm. Very entrepreneurial.
So I am thinking more and more about Mexico. The web is full of flacks for Mexican real estate and investment opportunities. But
Lots of retirees and gringos flock to the costal resort areas. Forget those – Miami Beach South.
San Miguel Allende is in the highlands, about 3-5 hours north of Mexico DF. SMA itself sounds like a transplant from La Jolla California, but there are communities around it that may offer the best of both worlds. The book says that Guanajuato – a major city, unfortunately - has an active life with culture, and “very few foreigners living here, you will rarely hear English.” So it might be possible to find an interesting opportunity between these two locations. The other problem is that “highlands” means weather like Xela.
Coming down from the highlands a bit, Chalapa seems to offer a lot – but again, it will be necessary to look around to avoid the gringo centers.
At any rate, there are lots of Spanish schools, and lots of English schools too, because English so essential for any profession in Mexico. Some 50% of the education is taught in English. So it sounds to me like there should be lots of teaching opportunities in both English and Chemistry, and finding a place that also feels comfortable should be a matter of time and looking.
Meanwhile, I am looking at teaching English at a little school near our house here for the rest of the academic year that ends in September. It should force me to use-improve my Spanish, put some routine back into my life, and give me a taste of teaching English, even if it is for little kids. This school is small – no class larger than 10 students.
FINALLY: I needed to gtake a trip outside of Guatemala to renew my tourist visa, and that took me to El Salvador. My take on our visit was posted earlier (see previous post).
Stay tuned for more occasional reports on the trials and tribulations of life in Central America, more or less as they occur!
